I’ve baked this loaf, or some variant of it, so many times I’ve lost count. This bread was born when I first got my hands dirty with flour and water. Its parent—if you could call it that—was originally Chad Robertson’s Tartine loaf with his liquid levain, brought to life, not with intensive kneading, but rather a series of folds during bulk fermentation.
My best sourdough recipe has grown since then. It has developed a personality of its own as I’ve expanded my baking repertoire and investigated the many facets of baking naturally leavened sourdough. It’s taken on and lost traits from many great bakers out there, borrowing from their inspiration and giving me a direction to raise this bread into something of my own. This bread is one that doesn’t entirely taste like anything else I’ve had, and yet, still employs many of the same processes and ingredients.
That’s one of the greatest things about bread: it can taste and look dramatically different just by changing the two hands that create it. Calling this post “my best sourdough recipe” is a lofty claim, but honestly, I do believe this is the best bread I’ve made thus far.
I sometimes revisit a discussion I had with a few readers of this site and their comments: “bread is just bread, it’s something to be eaten and is something life-giving, isn’t that enough?” I agree, but when something becomes a passion for you it’s important to set lofty goals and get excited when breakthroughs are made. Isn’t that the definition of a craft and the relentless honing required?
I’ve taken my best sourdough recipe from its most nascent form to its current stage and can trace through the years each change to its formula or process — and I’m sure I’ll be changing things well into the future as it continues to evolve — a work-in-progress.
Yes it’s excessive in some way, but there’s an excessiveness to ambition as well.
John Mayer
Maybe the actual recipe for this bread isn’t the most important part, but rather, the lessons and insights learned along the way as I continually hone my baking proficiency. I’m not claiming this recipe will yield the perfect loaf every single time, but I dare say it comes the closest for me—and that’s exciting.
This bread is the bread that I want to make the most often, the one my family asks for the most often, and the one I share most often. I have a special place for whole wheat bread, and taste-wise, it might make me want to call that my favorite one day, but the versatility of this bread is pretty hard to beat. In fact, I bake this so often that my freezer has an entire shelf lined with pre-sliced loaves wrapped and in bags labeled pane perfetto.
While the actual formula for my best sourdough recipe is simply a mix of flour, water, salt, and levain, there are many nuances here to pay close attention to; here are a few key things to successfully making this bread:
- An active starter
- An autolyse
- A high hydration
- Sufficient dough strength
- A warm and complete bulk fermentation
- A long, cold proof
Before writing this post, I pulled out my trusty notebook (or use my free baker’s note sheet!) and paged through the handwritten (and flour-ridden) pages to find any scribbled “ah-ha” moments or little notes jotted down in the margin, along with a few curse words peppered throughout, and have bundled them up into this entry (sans curse words to keep it clean). A compendium of sorts containing my insights, breakthroughs, and ah-ha moments.
My best sourdough recipe doesn’t require an exotic blend of hard-to-find flour, a complicated multi-step levain build, or the use of a mechanical mixer. It’s built around making this bread in your home kitchen.
My best sourdough recipe is very highly hydrated and can be challenging. When mixing, be watchful for the signs and adjust the dough hydration to suit your environment and flour. If you’re not used to working with high-hydration dough, please start with hydration somewhere in the middle and slowly work up.
Flour Selection
I’ve tried a lot of flour out there (and am an avid user of freshly milled flour), indeed not everything there is, but I’ve ordered enough now that the UPS guy thinks I might have a bakery in my backyard. I have baked some great bread with Hayden Flour Mills, Central Milling, and Giusto’s. I’ve also had great success with King Arthur Baking high-protein white flour.
I have consistently made incredible loaves with Giusto’s flour; I only wish it were organic. Nevertheless, I find myself ordering a box of it here and there and enjoying the results every time. Of course, as I mentioned before, try whatever is local first (sadly, my source for local, organic flour is no longer available) and whatever you like.
When trying new flour, remember to hold back more water than you might otherwise, and then slowly add it in at the end of mixing or throughout bulk fermentation. Now, on to my best sourdough recipe.
Watch Me Make This From Start To Finish
I absolutely love this bread and make it often, but it can be challenging for first-time bakers. Be sure to watch my YouTube video below for a look at how I handle the dough and every step of the process.
If you’re brand new to baking sourdough, check out my Beginner’s Sourdough Bread recipe; it has in-depth information on every step in the baking process. Then come back and bake this!
My Best Sourdough Recipe
Vitals
| Total Dough Weight | 1,800 grams |
| Pre-fermented Flour | 6.4% |
| Levain percentage in final dough | 17.1% |
| Hydration | 85.0% |
| Yield | Two 900g loaves |
Total Formula
The target final dough temperature (FDT) is 78°F (25°C). This dough loves a warm ambient environment. Try to keep the dough at the listed temperatures if possible; use your oven with its light on inside, your microwave with a bowl of steaming water, or a proofer. I use my instant-read thermometer to check the dough temperature periodically throughout bulk.
For more information on how to calculate DDT, monitor temperature, and maintain temperature have a look at my post on The Importance of Dough Temperature in Baking.
| Weight | Ingredient | Baker’s Percentage |
|---|---|---|
| 852g | Medium-protein bread flour (~11.5% protein, Giusto’s Artisan Bread Flour) | 90.00% |
| 94g | Whole wheat flour (Giusto’s Organic Stoneground Whole Wheat) | 10.00% |
| 710g | Water 1 | 75.00% |
| 95g | Water 2 | 10.00% |
| 17g | Salt | 1.80% |
| 30g | Ripe sourdough starter (100% hydration) | 3.20% |
As I mentioned above, my best sourdough recipe is an extremely high hydration. If this is your first time working with this recipe, reduce the total water or hold water back during mixing to ensure your dough can handle the addition. The amount of water your dough will handle will vary based on your particular flour and environment—play it safe the first few bakes and work the water up gradually once you get a feel for the dough.
My Best Sourdough Recipe Method
1. Levain – 9:00 a.m.
Build the liquid levain in the morning and store somewhere warm around 77-80°F (25-26°C) ambient for 5 hours.
| Weight | Ingredient | Baker’s Percentage |
|---|---|---|
| 30g | Ripe sourdough starter (100% hydration) | 50% |
| 30g | Medium-protein bread flour (~11.5% protein, Giusto’s Artisan Bread Flour) | 50% |
| 30g | Whole wheat flour (Giusto’s Organic Stoneground Whole Wheat) | 50% |
| 60g | Water | 100% |
If you haven’t yet read through my post on my sourdough starter maintenance routine, check it out for some helpful hints on what to look for when your sourdough starter and levain are ripe and ready to use.
2. Autolyse – 12:00 p.m.
This highly hydrated dough can be mixed by hand or with a mechanical mixer (like a home spiral mixer). Either one will yield great results, but here, I’ll discuss mixing this dough by hand.
Mix the flour and water in a bowl until all the dry bits are incorporated, then cover. Ensure all the dry flour is hydrated—store near levain (we want the dough’s temperature to remain warm).
| Weight | Ingredient |
|---|---|
| 822g | Medium-protein bread flour |
| 64g | Whole wheat flour |
| 650g | Water 1 |
3. Mix – 2:00 p.m.
| Weight | Ingredient |
|---|---|
| 95g | Water 2 |
| 17g | Fine sea salt |
| 151g | Ripe liquid levain (see above) |
Add the ingredients to your dough in the mixing bowl that underwent an autolyse. Add the water slowly, in stages, while you’re mixing, and stop adding water if the dough feels excessively wet or soupy at any point.
Perform folds for about 2-3 minutes in the bowl. Grab under one side, pull up and over to the other side, then rotate the bowl a bit and repeat. I do this probably 30 times or so (it goes fast and easy). In the end, the dough should still be shaggy, but it will be more smooth and will start to hold itself together more in the bowl.
If you’re a fan of the slap & fold mixing technique I’ve described in the past, you can do this but be aware that it is difficult at this hydration. It’s best to first slap and fold the dough without adding all the reserved water to get the dough smooth and strong. Then, return the dough to the mixing bowl and slowly add the remaining water while folding the dough.
I find that the correct level of dough strength at this point is important. You want the dough to be smooth, elastic, and strong, but it doesn’t have to be fully developed, and it will still be shaggy. We will continue to strengthen the dough through stretch and folds in bulk fermentation.
Transfer dough to a tub or thick-walled bowl for bulk fermentation.
5. Bulk Fermentation – 2:15 p.m. to 6:15 p.m.
At 78°F (25°C) ambient temperature, bulk fermentation should go for about 4 hours. Perform six sets of stretch and folds during the bulk. The first three are at 15-minute intervals, and the last three are at 30-minute intervals. After these folds (2 hours and 15 minutes have gone by), let the dough rest for the remainder of bulk fermentation.
I stretch and fold more vigorously at the beginning of bulk than usual since it is extraordinarily slack and extensible (due to this recipe’s high hydration and autolyse). Pick up one side of the dough with both hands and pull it up, just before tearing, and fold it over to the other side. Rotate your container and repeat 4 or 5 times. That is one set.
Above, you can see my best sourdough recipe dough halfway through bulk, after about 2 hours. There is no significant rise as of yet, but the edges are beginning to dome downward, and the dough’s texture is smoothing out slightly. We still have several more folds to do and more strength to build.
It is essential that the dough is kept near 78°F (25°C) as much as possible (minor fluctuations up and down are ok). If temperatures dip down too far, you might have to extend the bulk fermentation duration to compensate, and vice versa. Use your judgment, the signs described below, and be flexible.
At the end of bulk, your dough should look very gassy, with some bubbles here and there, and the edges where the dough meets the bowl should be slightly domed. You can see all these signs in the image above.
When you gently shake the bowl, the entire mass jiggles from side to side—very alive. You’ll also notice that compared with the photo at the beginning of bulk, the dough is smoother and holds its edges, folds, and creases more readily (most of the bumps and ridges you see are due to trapped gasses from fermentation).
6. Divide & Preshape – 6:15 p.m.
Divide the dough into two halves and gently preshape each piece of dough into a round. Then, let the dough rest for 30 minutes, uncovered. Act quickly when handling this dough and rely heavily on your bench knife. I try to use my hands as little as possible when dealing with the dough at this point.
7. Shape – 6:45 p.m.
Lightly flour the top of your dough rounds and flour the work surface. With this recipe use a little more flour on the surface than normal, the dough will be extremely sticky and wet. Flip each round and shape into a batard (see notes below) or boule, whatever your preference.
Here’s a video of how I shape a bâtard. With this dough, be sure to use the “slack dough” shaping method since the dough is such high hydration.
I prefer to shape these as batards, and my shaping method is as follows:
- Flip pre-shaped round
- Fold the bottom up to about halfway
- Fold the left side over to about 3/4 to the right
- Fold the right side over to cover left
- Stretch top up & away from the center and fold down to about half (you’ll now have a “letter”)
- Grab a little of the dough at the sides near the top and stretch it over the center, so the dough crosses. Imagine lacing up a shoe where you first grab your laces and cross them over
- Repeat three times from top to bottom (the result will look like a laced up shoe)
- Take the bottom and gently roll the dough up to the top and try to seal it slightly when done rolling
Alternatively, if the dough feels pretty strong, you could shape it by “cinching” up the dough. For more instruction on how to shape this dough as an oblong loaf, see my post on how to shape a batard (with video!).
After shaping, let the dough rest on the bench for a few minutes and then place it into a banneton that is lightly dusted with white flour. You’ll see above my bannetons give the dough plenty of room to relax and expand in the fridge overnight. If your proofing container is on the smaller side, and you find your dough almost spilling over the edges, it might be time for a larger basket.
8. Proof – 7:25 p.m. to 9:00 a.m., the next day
Cover your banneton with plastic and place it in the refrigerator at 38°F (3°C) overnight.
9. Bake – Next Morning: Preheat oven at 8:00 a.m., Bake at 9:00 a.m.
Preheat your oven to 450°F (230°C). Remove the dough from the fridge (there’s no need to let the dough come to room temperature) and uncover. I scored the dough with a single, long slash to get that dramatic opening when baked. I keep the blade at a reasonably shallow angle so the taut skin created during shaping will “peel” back as the loaf rises.
I steamed my oven in my usual way, described here in my post on how to steam your home oven for baking. But you can also bake in a pot or Dutch oven.
Bake for 20 minutes with steam, then remove your steaming pans if baking on a surface or Dutch oven/combo cooker lid. Then, bake for an additional 30 minutes until done to your liking. I like to bake rather dark, so I sometimes extend this second half of baking until I get the crust I’m looking for.
Once your loaf is done, remove and let cool on a wire rack for 1-2 hours. See my post on the best way to store the bread after it’s baked for a few tips on keeping it on the counter and freezing if you think you won’t get through both loaves in a week.
Conclusion
It’s hard to put into words just how much I enjoy this “my best sourdough recipe.” I bake it almost every week (sometimes multiple times if baking for friends and family), and yet every time I pull it from the oven, I smile. The crust color, the open and light interior, only the smallest perception of sour notes, and the way it crunches when toasted. I could go on and on.
The photos to follow are the results of scattered recent bakes that all followed this process exactly and have a slightly different outcome. You’ll notice some are a bit darker, some have more or less flour on them, some expand differently in the oven, and some are taller and some are shorter—that’s the nature of baking.
With baking, every single bake is different no matter how consistent you try to be. It’s the same with my Dad and his Italian restaurant, and the reason I’ll sometimes get a call in the middle of the afternoon: “hey, the pizza dough is incredible today, you should head over and grab some.”
Crust
As a kid, I was known to take slices of bread, cut out the center, and eat the crust. It used to anger my family because they’d reach into the breadbasket only to find slices of only the soft parts. That’s how much I love the crust! Can you blame me, though?
I enjoy bread with a chunky, chewy crust, but this bread with its delicate and cracker-like crust takes the top spot for me. Even though I bake these rather dark, the crust remains thin and brittle, crackling under the slightest pressure. I love using the “heel” (the very end) of this bread to eat soup or combined with hefty slices of cheese. It’s delicious.
Crumb
I think there’s a balance to be had with bread like this. It’s possible to let the crumb open up too much, but for me, this is just right. Scattered open areas with that translucent webbing spanning from wall-to-wall, a dynamic movement to these areas, almost show you how shaping was carried out.
Taste
This bread has an almost imperceptible hint of sour, and because of this, the wheat flavors from the flour come forward. It has an incredibly tender, soft crumb that almost dissolves in your mouth. It’s one of those rare foods whereupon taking that first bite your mouth begins to water.
In the end, bread is just bread. But it’s also the staff of life and has been for thousands of years. It’s is also more than the sum of the ingredients you add to the mixing bowl. It’s how it makes you feel when you give some to a friend, and they grin ear-to-ear as they take a big bite. It’s the knowledge that you created this thing over a few days that once was a lump on your counter and is now an incredibly delicious food meant to be shared. To me, this is real bread and my best sourdough recipe to date.
Buon appetito!
Print
My Best Sourdough Recipe
- Prep Time: 24 hours
- Cook Time: 55 minutes
- Total Time: 24 hours 55 minutes
- Yield: 2 loaves
- Category: Sourdough, Bread
- Cuisine: American
Description
This sourdough bread is one of my favorite recipes. It’s a highly hydrated dough that results in a loaf with an open and lacey interior contrasted by a thin, crispy crust.
Ingredients
Levain
- 30g medium-protein bread flour
- 30g whole wheat flour
- 60g water
- 30g ripe sourdough starter
Main Dough
- 822g medium-protein bread flour
- 64g whole wheat flour
- 745g water
- 17g salt
- 151g ripe levain
Instructions
- Levain (9:00 a.m.)
In a small container, mix the levain ingredients and keep at 78°F (25°C) for 5 hours. - Autolyse (12:00 p.m)
In a medium mixing bowl, add 822g medium-protein bread flour, 64g whole wheat flour, 650g water, and mix until no dry bits remain. Cover the bowl and let rest for 2 hours. - Mix (2:00 p.m.)
To the mixing bowl holding your dough, add 95g water (holding back any as necessary if the dough is too wet), 17g sea salt, and the ripe levain (from step 1). Pinch and mix all the ingredients together and do folds in the bowl for 2 to 3 minutes until the dough smooths and is cohesive. Then, transfer your dough to a bulk fermentation container and cover. - Bulk Fermentation (2:15 p.m. to 6:15 p.m.)
Give the dough 6 sets of stretch and folds. The first three sets are at 15-minute intervals, and the last three sets are at 30-minute intervals. - Divide and Preshape (6:15 p.m.)
Lightly flour your work surface and scrape out your dough. Using your bench knife, divide the dough in half. Lightly shape each half into a round shape. Let the dough rest for 30 minutes, uncovered. - Shape (6:45 p.m.)
Shape the dough into a round (boule) or oval (batard) and place it in proofing baskets. Cover the baskets with a reusable plastic bag. - Proof (7:25 p.m. to 9:00 a.m. the next day)
Cover proofing baskets with reusable plastic and seal them shut. Then, place both baskets into the refrigerator and proof overnight. - Bake (Preheat oven at 8:00 a.m., bake at 9:00 a.m.)
I steamed my oven in my usual way, described here in my post on how to steam your home oven for baking. But you can also bake in a pot or Dutch oven. Preheat your oven with a combo cooker or Dutch oven inside to 450°F (230°C). Remove your dough from the fridge, score it, and transfer it to the preheated combo cooker. Place the cooker in the oven, cover with the lid, and bake for 20 minutes. After this time, remove the lid (you can keep it in the oven or remove it) and continue to bake for 30 minutes longer. When done, the internal temperature should be around 208°F (97°C). Let the loaves cool for 2 hours on a wire rack before slicing.
Notes
This is a very highly hydrated dough. Don’t add in all the reserved water during mixing if it feels like the dough is becoming overly weak, slack, or soupy.
What’s Next?
If you want more help getting an open crumb with this bread, I’ve created a 100+ page book with step-by-step instructions. Learn the best flour to use, the right fermentation schedule, and all my tips in my Bread Baker’s Handbook.
Are you a TPL Member? If so, the handbook is free for you!
2,142 Comments
You’re not the only one who raided the crust and left the soft inside for the rest of the family as a kid! I’m normally pretty unselfish; but when there’s great crust involved, well …
Ha ha, we sound like the same kid growing up! I like to say when it comes to good crust, all pleasantries are put aside 🙂
So I have been using this recipe pretty regularly the past few months and have had great results
My only consistent challenge is how sticky the dough is when pre-shaping/shaping. I can manage it OK and I know it should be somewhat sticky with the hydration level but from watching a few different videos on pre-shaping, the dough looks so much more uniform and taut when it is being shaped compared to mine at home.
My concern is that I am not getting enough tension, so my oven spring is good but somewhat delayed, like the dough out of the fridge can’t hold its shape as it initially warms up. Like I said, I still get decent oven spring but not like I have seen on so many other loaves…any thoughts? Could those be connected?
PS – I am using your steam technique, which I love…baking two loaves on pizza stone each week!
The other thing is my plastic wrap sticks pretty significantly when waiting to shape…thanks again!
Glad to hear that! Yes, this dough can be very sticky and depending on the flour you’re using it can be extremely challenging. Since hydration is a very relative number (relative to flour and environment) I’d suggest you try reducing hydration a few percentage points to see if that helps. Sometimes even 1-2% makes a huge difference, resulting in bread that not only rises higher but has better structure overall.
I’d start with 5% and see how that goes!
Maurizio, where did you get these particular baskets? I’m interesting in many trying to make some batards and I like the size you have here…. Looks like the ones you have recommended in your “my tools” section were smaller.
Best,
Scott
I picked these up at Breadtopia.com, they are the longer wood pulp bannetons. I’ll have to add them to my tools page!
Same question here, how did you get this total pre-fermented flour: 6.4%?
What calculation are you using?
Please see my answer to this at your other question posted on Beginner’s Sourdough Bread!
My first sourdough loaf! I followed your instructions to the letter (including making the starter), reading and rereading them (and every other page of this site), each time with greater understanding, watching the videos you recommend multiple times, again each time with greater understanding. Feeling, smelling, touching, finally tasting… The results? Fantastic texture and perfectly balanced flavour! No, my bread doesn’t have as many great air holes as yours (but then, I never got my starter looking as vigorous as yours either- I suspect because it was simply never warm enough) but it is still very decent bread. (I know of what I speak; I live in Quebec City, where top-notch bread abounds!) Thank you so much for your pursuit of excellence, your devotion to simple but thorough explanation and your generosity in sharing both (along with a whole heap of invaluable and inspiring photos)!
Karen — really happy to hear this! I’m glad your bread turned out well, it sure sounds like you spent the time to research and prepare, I think this is half the battle most times. With time I’m positive your bread will only improve, and as the weather warms up you’ll also notice quite a bit more activity not only in your starter but also in your dough.
Thanks so much for the kind words, I’m really happy to hear you’re enjoying my take on sourdough and my website! Happy baking 🙂
Ooh, second try today not so good! Yesterday the dough was a sticky, runny mess! :(( It’s not a brick and still tastes great but the results are nothing like last week. Could it be because I didn’t feed my starter properly before building my levain? I took it out of the fridge Friday morning for a Saturday build but decided to monitor it instead of feeding it. It went crazy bubbly and rose far beyond my expectations but became pretty liquid (no vinegar smell however). It seemed to make an OK levain and the dough looked great but it had no strength at all and I could barely shape it.
Very discouraging!
My starter’s back in the fridge and this time I’ll be taking it out Thursday morning for another Saturday build. Should I feed it as soon as it comes out of the fridge or let it warm up and ferment for a while first? Then feed it again Thursday night and maybe three times Friday? Any help would be appreciated!
Yes, that could definitely be the cause. Maintaining your starter and making a strong levain is incredibly important! Keep an eye on it and feed it predictably when it needs it. I let it warm up a bit after it comes out of the fridge, then feed it to get it back on schedule. You only need to feed it three times a day if it looks like it needs it. You want it to show very strong fermentation, rise up to a high level and just about when it’s going to fall back down give it a refreshment.
Thank you Maurizio. Food and warmth from Thursday on!
It was ok, nothing great!
That’s totally fine! This recipe is a good springboard for you to take this dough in your own direction, wherever your bread preference may be. Happy baking, Lisa!
My wife saw some program on healthy bread and asked me to bake some for her. Little did I know there was so much to it! Did some research, started a starter and baked a couple of loaves from some other recipe. 2 bricks, lightly dusted. Same thing the next week. Got a new starter and found your recipe. Last week much better but not quite there. Very little oven spring so I revved the starter up this week and baked two today. Finally!! My wife just made sandwiches and the bread was perfect. Thanks for the great blog…
The only thing I need to perfect is the scoring. The cuts seem to “heal” over before it springs. I’m not using the same flower as you and slightly less water. This is the last thing I need to solve so I can post pretty pictures too.
Right on, glad to hear your latest attempts have gone pretty well! It’s easy to get overwhelmed by the baking process at first but I think after you do it a few times you really get the hang of it.
The score can kind of heal back up for a few reasons: over proofed dough (reduce your proof time and see if it helps), not enough tension in the dough from shaping (make sure there’s a nice taut skin on the dough after shaping) and finally you might not be scoring deep enough with your blade (make sure the cut goes in and slightly below the tight skin created during shaping).
Hope this helps and keep at it! Baking always gets better and better as you gain experience. Have fun 🙂
Hi Maurizio, quick question. Does the dough go directly from the refrigerator to the oven or do you let the dough come to room temp at all?
Straight from fridge to oven (after scoring)!
Hey what size bannetons are those?
Also if I want to do the same day bake, how many hours of proofing would you recommend? I did 3 hours and it was too much for the temperature that day, the dough was flowing out of the banneton. The temperature was no more than 75 degrees.
These bannetons are 14″ long.
It’s hard to say exactly how long of a room temp ferment you need to fully proof the dough — like you said it depends on the temperature of your kitchen. At around 75-78ºF I’d say 3-4 hours, but there are a lot of factors at play. When I do room temp ferments like this I use the “poke test” (if you are unfamiliar with this there are videos on YouTube) to determine if the dough is done and ready to be baked!
Thank you for the advice ! Moe Mathy
Maurizio, followed your recipe pretty close but baked the loaves in a cloche and romertopf clay pot. Ended up with way too big holes and one round loaf with one big cavity. What causes these big holes? Moe Mathy
Usually when I see bakes that have a few scattered huge holes with other parts of the dough much more dense it’s due to underproofing. Make sure your bulk fermentation goes far enough so the dough is developed and looks similar to the photos I have in the post above. 4 hours is a good benchmark at 75ºF – 80ºF but it may take longer depending on the temperature in your kitchen. Keep an eye on the dough and its temperature and adjust the time as necessary (cooler temps will take longer). You really want that dough to look alive in the bulk container when you divide.
Hope that helps, Moe!
Maurizio, your blog is the bomb! I stumbled on it nearly three weeks into nursing a rye starter, when I was searching for a good first sourdough recipe. A couple of days before Christmas I decided to make a Russian pan loaf of rye bread I’d made a number of times several years ago, but back then I’d been provided a starter along with the recipe. Lacking a starter this time, I turned to the internet to figure out how to make my own. It’s now been a little over three weeks, and I have a healthy starter with a voracious appetite! (No Brutus here; I should name mine Homer Simpson or some other food loving character.) By pure luck, it’s a rye starter because I had originally intended only to make that Russian rye loaf (which, by the way, I did when my starter was only a week old, and that turned out well!). Of course, in the process of reading about sourdough starters, I discovered the new (for me) sourdough/artisan/tartine world, and I knew I’d be trying more breads beyond the rye loaf that quite serendipitously launched me on this journey.
Part of the reason for the delay in making my first sourdough was Maurizio’s insistence (like that of every other experienced baker I’ve read, albeit all my reading has been in just the last couple of weeks!) that baking a good loaf requires precise measurements of ingredients by weight, not volume. So I patiently awaited the arrival of my new digital scale from Amazon. I also picked up a bench knife for pre-shaping and some new utility knife blades (that I’d be able to use on other projects even if my bread making doesn’t last). Other than that, I made do with the tools I already have in my kitchen. In my case, however, that included a dutch oven and a thermapen instant read thermometer. Thermapens aren’t cheap, but I have one I use for BBQ. It wasn’t absolutely necessary, but I did use it to confirm the temperature of my turned-off-oven-with-light-on and the temperature of my water. I’m sure you could use an inexpensive thermometer to get your water around 90F.
For the better part of this week, I debated whether to start with the beginner loaf (my better judgment) or Maurizio’s best sourdough (what I really wanted to do). I decided to go with the best, promising myself if it didn’t turn out well that I wouldn’t be discouraged, and I’d give the beginner recipe a few tries before trying this one again.
Results? Presto! As Maurizio’s written, it’s truly like modern day alchemy. I have little doubt that it’s not the best loaf I’ll ever make, but I still can’t believe that THIS loaf came out of MY oven (I wish I could post my pictures here for you to see what success can come from when your work-in-progress doesn’t look as perfect as Maurizio’s). The crust is awesome, and I (im)patiently waited two hours to cut into it. When I did, I discovered a creamy, open crumb. My six year old devoured a heel, and even at his young age, he’s something of a snob about bread, so I had independent confirmation of success!
I write not to brag, at least not to brag about MY efforts. I will, however, brag on MAURIZIO’s recipe and detailed instructions. I’m sure the key to my success was sticking extremely close to his instructions, especially with respect to timing, temperature and measurements. If you’re having troubles, my first question is: are you following Maurizio’s instructions to a tee? I didn’t start the process at the time his instructions do, so I wrote down revised times for the entire process based on the time I had started. A couple of times I was a little slow, so I revised my times from those points on as well.
I made sure my starter was ready for use (per Maurizio’s starter maintenance post), and after I mixed the levain, I put it in my oven with the light on, which maintained a temperature of around 80-82F. That was itself something of a surprise when I tested it earlier in the week. Believe it or not, turning on that little oven light will very likely take your oven to the perfect temperature for your levain and autolyse, too. If you’re having troubles and NOT doing those first two steps in your oven with the light on (or some other technique that maintains a near-80F temperature), try again, and this time, DO IT.
Not everything went perfectly, mind you. I was prepared for problems and even failure based on so many of the questions and comments I’ve read here. So I was pleasantly surprised how right the dough seemed to be by the time I started folding during the bulk fermentation phase. But by the end of my bulk fermentation, my dough was not as blistery as Maurizio’s. It looked more like the end of the bulk fermentation in Maurizio’s sourdough beginner’s recipe. I didn’t know what I could do about that, so I hoped it was close enough not to be a complete flop. When I preshaped, the dough didn’t ball up quite the way it does in Maurizio’s Instagram video, but I chalk this up to my lack of experience handling dough. And when I shaped it, the dough ball seemed flatter than Maurizio’s upright dough balls (or Chad Robertson’s). Lacking a banneton, I improvised with a bowl and tea towel, lightly dusted with rice flour — not just ANY flour, but RICE flour like Maurizio instructs. Into the fridge it went (I was making only a half recipe for one loaf), where it stayed for the next 15 hours. It had been an interesting day, but I didn’t let my hopes rise (yeah, a rimshot for a lame pun).
When I took out my dough today, it didn’t look like it had risen much, so I was preparing myself mentally for a disappointing first try — but my fault, right? I had to try the black diamond course first, hard headed me. Then when I scored the dough, it didn’t open quite like it does in some of the videos I’ve watched online, although within just a few more seconds the slits did expand and looked a lot like those pics and videos. Then I popped the dough into my preheated dutch oven and 500 degree oven. At the twenty minute mark when the dutch oven lid came off, I knew that I wasn’t going to be completely disappointed with my efforts. Another twenty five minutes at 450F and out came a loaf of bread that despite all the time I had invested, I still couldn’t believe came out of MY oven.
So for those of you who haven’t had success yet, I encourage you to stick with it, and most importantly, to adhere to Maurizio’s instructions just as closely as you possibly can. I was quite anal about doing things down to the minute, the gram and the degree that Maurizio prescribes (and that includes your ingredients, too). I read and reread three of his posts: maintaining your starter, beginner’s sourdough and the page you’re on right now. I made notes to outline exactly what I was doing and when, plus I had my iPad open to this page (and the beginner’s page), and reread each step one more time right before I did that step.
Maurizio, I halfheartedly apologize for the length of this comment because I realize it’s more like a guest blog post, which I would totally turn this into (with pics), if I could — as a complement to your picture perfect pics and instructions. It’s incredibly helpful to see what things SHOULD look like throughout the process, but I think it could also be encouraging to see what less-than-perfect can turn into in your oven. Honestly, by the end of my bulk fermentation it crossed my mind to pitch the dough and start over again today. But I had invested the better part of a day making it, so I figured I might as well see it through, and I’m glad I did.
I doubt I’ll turn into a pathological sourdough baker. And I’m definitely not self-taught; I’m internet-taught, but I’m mostly Maurizio-taught, and thank you for that, Maurizio. Of course, I’m still a fledgling student, but I’m an enthusiastic, new sourdough baker who is very appreciative of this site. You know, you could pack this all up in a book and go commercial, don’t you, dude? AWESOME site. Congratulations on your Saveur award! Richly deserved!
Rob — WOW what a post, thanks so much for the feedback and all the comments! I’m super glad to hear your bake has gone well. Like you said in your post, baking really comes down to making a series of small adjustments, and listening to the dough, through the entire process. These small little steps all add up to something larger and, in the end, are what help make an awesome loaf of sourdough bread.
I agree, sometimes it would be nice to see failures and missteps along the way so you can see the contrast between what works and what doesn’t work. I’ve done this previously on my Oat Porridge Sourdough but I probably should start doing this a bit more as I experiment and develop new recipes — thanks for that suggestion!
Yes, perhaps one day I’ll package all this up into a single, concise book but for now I’m happy to write here and just bake as much as possible. Plus, I love interacting with all the bakers who send messages and ask questions — it’s awesome!
Thanks again and here’s to many more bakes in the future!
You flatter! You say that I said “listen to the dough, making small adjustments.” For better or worse, I say listen to Maurizio! I experiment with recipes from the internet all the time and usually my final recipe is some amalgam of two or three of the best recipes I’ve read, most likely with my own tweaks. But this is baking, man! And I suspect there are a lot of folks like me who don’t know what to “listen for” from the dough, and we don’t know what “small adjustments” to make or in what direction (although 10% less hydration seems like a consistent tweak here). I’ll get there, where I can listen and adjust. But for my first loaf, I followed your instructions to the tee like I was making my first nuclear bomb. No deviations. Like I tell my six year old, follow instructions exactly and immediately! For the failed outcomes, I’m sure it makes it easier for you to diagnose via the internet if your instructions have been adhered to closely. So at the risk of contradicting my Sourdough Master (we just saw the new Star Wars last night), I say to your readers FIRST follow Maurizio’s instructions exactly and immediately. I look forward to many more Maurizio-moderated bakes.
Over time that ability to listen to the dough does increase 🙂 You start to notice the small things, the finer details, and you’re also building up a compendium of past bakes from which you can draw comparisons to — a valuable tool. Sometimes these tweaks and changes are subconscious even (“that dough doesn’t look strong enough, ok one more fold”).
Thanks again for the comments and glad to have you along — happy baking!
Hi Maurizio — love your blog! I’ve made your beginner sourdough a couple of times and was pleased with the results. I’ve just made your “best sourdough” recipe as I was hoping for an even airier and more open crumb. I took your advice and used a bit less water (720g total — 82% hydration). I’m in Canada and using Robin Hood AP Unbleached flour (about 11.5% protein, similar to your artisan flour). Everything was great until I poured my dough onto the board after the bulk fermentation (very active starter and levain, dough rose more than 50% during bulk in predicted time frame and temperature, with bubbles as in the photo) — I think it might be over-hydrated. It’s still pretty rough and shaggy looking, and extremely slack, won’t hold a shape at all. Just sort of sat in a puddle on the board. (I have photos and a video, but don’t seem to be able to attach them here…) I poured it into floured bowls and it’s in the fridge now for the night, but I don’t have very high hopes for it… My question is — aside from protein content, are there other factors that influence the amount of water a flour can take? Maybe the Robin Hood flour just can’t go much beyond the 78% hydration of your beginner sourdough recipe. If that’s the case, is there another way to get a more open crumb? More slap and folds, maybe? Thanks! Nicole
Thank you! It sounds like your flour probably wasn’t able to take on the amount of water used — not a problem, we can lower the hydration to suit. Each flour (and each batch of flour for that matter) has a different water absorption level and we have to adjust the recipe to suit. I usually recommend starting at a lower hydration than this recipe, as you did, but then also withhold another 100-200g water from the initial mix and add it in gradually as you handmix the dough. This way you can feel how the dough is developing and whether it can take more water or not. If it starts to get too soupy and feels overly weak stop there (ideally just before there).
I’d say go down another 10% on hydration and see how your flour responds. If the bake turns out great then you can stick to that level or slowly work up a little at a time if desired. Hydration is definitely a tricky thing and it does take experimentation, especially when working with a new flour.
Almost all steps of the baking process are involved in attaining a more light and open loaf. You have to have strong fermentation in your starter, sufficient protein in your flour (11.5% or more is sufficient), a full and complete bulk step, gentle shaping and full proof — these are all necessary! I wish I could single out a specific thing, like adding more strength to the dough, that would help but unfortunately that is not the case. You will see as you keep baking and you really begin to read the dough and what it needs you’ll see your bread will keep improving more and more.
I hope this helps!
Thanks, this is very helpful! I made another batch with less water and it turned out much better! I also used the slap and fold technique for about 10 minutes to build strength. Is it still necessary to perform stretch and folds during bulk fermentation if you do the slap and folds beforehand? And, is there such a thing as too much slap and fold? Can you work the dough too much (by hand)? What happens to it? Thanks so much for your help, Maurizio!
Awesome, glad to hear that! There’s a balance with strengthening the dough: you want to end bulk with enough strength in the dough to trap gasses but not so much that it can’t expand in the oven. Slap/fold and stretch/fold both do the same thing but I like to do slap/fold for a bit in the beginning so I handle the dough less during bulk (to avoid knocking gasses out during interaction). You can do more slap/fold at the beginning, so much that you wouldn’t need a single stretch and fold, but I find doing at least one during bulk helps redistribute the dough and keep the temperature in there equal among the entire mass.
It’s very hard to over mix the dough by hand, I would not worry about it at all. If you over mix (usually in a mixer) the dough will become very strong and eventually over oxidize to the point that the crumb on the resulting bread will be slightly white in color and lose flavor. I’ve never personally done this but I’ve read about this in multiple sources.
Hope that helps!
I have a technique question. What do you think the impact is by adding the levain at the beginning, with the water, at the start of autolyse. I hate mixing a liquid into a partially mixed dough.
Once you add the levain in with the final dough ingredients fermentation begins. If you do a long autolyse with this levain your dough will likely have undergone too much fermentation by the time bulk completes. During autolyse you don’t want fermentation to happen but you do want other the other processes to occur (enzymatic activity that helps strengthen gluten, the breakdown of starches, etc.). Hope that makes sense!
Yes, thanks.
Trying this recipe this week. It looks perfect!
I’m wondering what’s the reasoning behind autolyse without levain as opposed to the Tartine method of including it? Seems like maybe adding levain to the autolyse shortens proofing time?
Thanks 🙂
Thank you! If you’re doing a short autolyse, like 30m or so, adding the levain is fine but for a long autolyse you don’t wait to add the levain because right once you add the levain to the rest of your dough fermentation on that dough begins. When you mix just water and flour together other chemical/biological processes are taking place but fermentation won’t happen. Adding your levain to a really long autolyse could cause the dough to over proof, depending on other conditions.
I hope that makes sense!
Thanks! It totally does. But I’m confused because I think I keep coming across conflicting info from different sources.
I recently read the Tartine #3 book and it seems like those recipes call for autolyse of 1-4 hours but still add the levain to the initial mix? I have to go back and re-read it, but I think I remember a bit about higher whole grain doughs benefiting from extra long autolyse and I don’t remember the book specifying to add the levain later in those cases.
Am I missing something? Thanks again 🙂
I think in T3 he does not add the levain to the autolyse. In the first book it was a little ambiguous but I believe he also intended for the levain to not be added, although it was never 100% clear to me. Yes, I find that a longer autolyse does help whole grains and also flour that has a high protein percentage.
Ahhhh okay. I need to be better about taking notes 🙂 Thanks for being so responsive, it’s super helpful.
No worries, sometimes I’m guilty myself! Happy baking, Kat!
Hi!
I have made this recipe a few times, as well as other similar variations. My final dough temp is about 77 degrees, and I bulk ferment in the oven with the light on at 77-81 degrees.
My question is about the final proof. I always retard in the fridge, and my schedule allows for a min 13 hours (rarely) but usually I can bake after about 19 hours. My fridge isn’t very cold, it ranges from 41 degrees to 46 degrees. And this is on the coldest setting. I had an issue with overproofing in a couple previous bakes (I think anyways, I’m not experienced enough to really know). Minimal oven spring, small holes, dense crumb, quite sour. My last 2 bakes have been excellent, with a overnight proof of 15 hours, but this was on the weekend. I like to bake during the work week and bake my loaves after work, which will be 19-20 hours in the fridge.
I get antsy when my loaves are in the fridge and I’m away from the house, having visions of my hard work dying in their baskets. Am I being too paranoid? There could have been other issues with those 2 failed bakes than my fridge temp. Do you think the dough will be ok for 20 hours at 45 degrees? I had an idea of putting an ice pack beside the dough to cool that area of the fridge.
Hey there! Your bulk temp sounds perfect. I like to shoot for around 16 hour cold proof but of course this depends on a lot of factors (including levain percentage, fridge temp, how far you take bulk, etc.) and this can be adjusted up/down. You could try cutting your bulk short by 1/2 hour to give your dough some more time before over proofing, this might give you some extra hours in the fridge. I don’t like to cut it too short, though, 3 to 3.5 hours is the lowest I’ll go. Twenty hours at 45ºF might be too long, but again, it depends on a lot of factors — my gut says too long with your bulk temp.
An ice pack could help but then it’s kind of hard to keep that part consistent from bake-to-bake and I hate when that happens 🙂 It’s worth a shot, though, if you think your dough is going to be in there too long!
Another idea is you could do a cold bulk. Do like a 2 hour bulk per normal with your stretch and folds, then pop the dough in it’s bulk container right into the fridge. The next day take it out, let it warm up a bit, preshape, shape and proof on the counter until ready. I don’t have any posts here on a schedule like that but I will here in the future.
I hope this helps!
I tried the cold bulk…a bit of a fail!
I did 2 hour autolyse, 2 hour bulk with 6 sets of stretch and fold every 15 min. 80% hydro. After 2 hours I put it in the fridge (43 degrees), was in there for 12 1/2 hours. I let it warm up in the bowl for an hour, then I preshaped, shaped and let it proof on the counter for 4 hours. I thought it would only take 2 or so, but I tried the poke test and the dough was just sticking to my fingers. After about 4 hours it was passing the poke test if I wet my fingers before touching the dough. When I turned it out onto the peel, it spread out like a pancake. It barely fit in the cloche. I thought I gave the dough some good strength and shaped it well…
Oddly enough even though my loaf went into the oven basically flat with a sad little slash, I had somewhat acceptable oven spring. And the bread tastes really good and I have a decent open crumb. My husband said this bread was some of the best tasting I’ve made. But I used a pretty young levain, and I think he likes the less sour taste.
I thought I would share my adventure with this new schedule. I will give it another go I think, but I think with higher hydro doughs it’s easier for me to put in the oven cold. Makes me realize even with a bread “fail”, I still end up with fresh artisan bread that is better than anything I can buy at my local grocery store.
So I attempted this loaf a few times and have run into a couple of challenges.
1. Whenever I finish bulk fermentation and move towards shaping, the dough seems more runny/sticky than it should be at that stage (bulk ferment just like you said, but added 30 minutes at the end because of the cool temp)
2. It works out ok, but whenever I go to bake (turning my banneton over onto the stone, slash the loaf), it looks as if there isn’t much oven spring..until I remove the skillet with lava rocks in it, then it blows up from the bottom of the loaf within minutes. The first time this happened, I thought my seam was weak from shaping, but this time I placed my loaf seam side up on the stone, still blowing out the bottom of the loaf.
Perhaps the two of these problems are related…any advice?
1. Have you tried reducing the overall hydration in this recipe to help? It might be that your flour isn’t able to take on quite the same level of water I have here and it needs adjustment. That said, this is a high hydration dough and it’s even sticky for me! I’d suggest reducing water a bit and see if this helps.
2. This is a strange issue! I wonder if perhaps your dough is underproofed and thus the explosion. I’ve run into issues in the past when I have underproofed dough it will forcefully erupt out the sides or the top in unexpected ways.
I’d recommend two things: reduce water 5% or so and also try to keep your dough warmer during bulk fermentation (78ºF to 80ºF is great) so your dough is more proofed. I hope this helps, let me know how the next trial works out!
Suddenly it is very cold in Austin! I wanted to bake some bread this weekend. I took my starter out of the friday Thursday night. I think I might have built the levain with a not so strong starter, it def. didn’t pass the float test. Two concerns it is around 65 degrees in the house at the moment, not sure in what conditions I should keep my starter and levain. Should I keep the levain with the weak starter or try again in 4 hours, I fed my starter this morning along side building the levain. Is there any way I can get bread this weekend? I also on a different page you say “If it’s a levain, not your starter, and it’s fermented much too fast for your schedule you can always make an intermediate build (essentially discard and feed new flour & water) and use the new build to mix” can you elaborate on that, in regards to this recipe!
I don’t have a proofer and no way of controlling temperature, this makes me feel like I will never have good bread. Austin is either crazy hot and everything overproofs or cold and nothing ferments at a speed that I can bake over the weekend.
It’s extremely cold here as well. 69ºF is very cold and you’ll see slow activity in your dough. You could keep your dough in the oven with the oven light on, that’s what I typically do. Another option is to buy a small dough proofing box (I have this and it’s fantastic) to keep your dough warm in the winter. I also keep my starter & levain in here when it gets super cold and I need to bake. Keep an ambient thermometer near your levain so you know appx. what temp it’s running.
If your levain doesn’t float then it needs more time to mature. Use the oven trick for now or you can make another levain once your starter is mature, use warmer water to speed things up. When I refer to an “intermediate build” it’s what I’ve just explained: another levain build if your levain is too mature to use (smells very acidic, has fallen and looks broken down) that will take another number of hours to get ready. For example, I just did this yesterday in fact — my levain was very, very ripe but I wasn’t ready to mix my dough so I made another levain with really warm water, 90ºF, and it was ready to go in 3-4 hours.
Unfortunately temperature is extremely critical with making bread and having your dough in the right range really helps. Search around your kitchen for warm (or cool) spots and use your oven with the light on as an incubation chamber. I also highly recommend that proof box if it’s within your budget!
Hope that helps, let me know if this is unclear — good luck!
Proofer looks amazing for not only bread but yogurt and tvorog. The main deterrent at the moment is the price tag.
For the intermediate build how much of the overfermented levain do you keep, 35 grams? and then add 70 grams of water and 70 grams of flour mix? This has happened to me and I just tossed the levain thinking it passed its peak.
Do you know of any more affordable proofers? The link you gave me goes to the ones that are 169 without taxes or shipping.
The inside of my oven is 66 degrees at the moment and my oven is soooo old there is no light option.
I will feed my starter one more time today and then use it for the levain build before I go to bed. Won’t have bread tomorrow but oh well. Can I cut the fridge fermentation to a couple of hours instead of 16? Maybe not even put it in the fridge and just bake it a couple of hours after shaping it? Is this possible?
For the intermediate levain it depends on how long you need before it’s ready… I do a 3 hour build that is 100% inoculation (mature starter/levain), 50g whole wheat, 50g white, 100g H2O @ 85ºF. At 3 hours its very mature and ready to go (at least here in my environment, keep an eye on it and make the call).
I don’t know of any other proofers. You can always build one yourself using a heating mat (or a plant seedling mat), and a cooler 🙂
Another option for you is to place your starter/lev/dough in the oven and boil a bowl of water and put it in there to keep things warm.
You can always cut the fridge fermentation, the bread will taste a bit different (a little more sweet, less sour complexity) but it will still be delicious. Just proof the dough somewhere warm and go until it’s ready to be baked. Use the “poke test” to determine when it’s ready.
Last question for the day, how do you know if your levain is ready? You described the dome and lots of bubbles on the side, I am just always worried that if I wait too long its going to drop!
If you’re using a liquid levain you can take a spoonful and drop it in a cup of tap water to see if it floats, that’s usually a good rule of thumb. I kind of judge by smell (sour but not overly so), how it looks and general timelines I’m used to. If it does drop it’s ok, it’ll still work as long as it’s not been too long!
Maurizio, this is awesome. i am going through this right now and was wondering if it is necessary to proof in the fridge if I want to bake in the evening. My proofing will be done in 78F area (oven with light on), so it should be ready in 4 hours. I will pop them in the fridge for 20 minutes before baking the first one and then keep the other in there until the second one is ready to bake. I do like having the option of baking the next day, but was wondering if you felt it necessary to do that or not. Thanks! I love your site!
Thank you! You do not have to proof in the fridge, just have the expectation that the bread will taste a bit different than what I intend here — and that’s totally fine! I find when I do a direct dough (no cold retard in fridge) the flavor is a little sweeter since there is less acidity in the dough, but it does lack some of the complexity of those subtle sour notes I look for. Both ways work really well it’s up to you and what you prefer. Time to experiment 🙂
Thanks! I do like having the sweeter taste.
I followed your directions especially around the additional autolyse, wait before salt, and folding schedule, and achieved awesome bubbling around the crust. However, I think my addition of the Wheat Germ (70 grams), and autolysing at 77 for 12 hours ruined my outcome. I got not-so-good rise (after baking), a little on the gummy side texture (although moist), and more than usual sour taste in the bread. I think I need to stop following the Tartine book and just go with your proportions (really disappointed, I think the book is missing a lot of details). I am going to exclude the Wheat Germ and autolyse for only 3 hours.
What else do you think might have caused this? I think the bread overproofed accidentally because of the wheat germ, I think…
Yes, adding wheat germ should increase fermentation rates in your dough that might have caught you off guard. However, a much bigger problem is If you had your levain in your autolyse step then yes, your dough would have been significantly over proofed. If you want to autolyse for that long make sure you do not include the levain in there (which is what a true autolyse is).
The Tartine book is really awesome, they all are actually, they just require a few details here and there for beginners — this is actually why I started this website because I was in your shoes right when the books came out! Hope this helps 🙂
Thanks! I wanted to give you an update on my retry (1/19): I took out the wheat germ, used Central Milling Craft Plus (800g) and King Arthur While Whole Wheat (70g), 150g leaven, and 755g of water. I used the amazing proofer box (79F) and got some amazing bulk bubbles. I folded only four times as it felt very extensible by end of hour 1. It rose almost twice in 4 hours. It was very sticky indeed, but I managed to pre-shape it. After I shaped it, it seemed ok, but a little less of a dome than I would like. I watched the guys at Tartine Manufactory and their domes looked perfect for the boules. Then, I proofed in the amazing proof box (79F) for 3.5 hours, poked and got my finger stuck in it, but then still put it into the fridge while I waited for the pre-heat. When I flipped over the banneton, the dough turned back into the post-bulk-pre-shape pancake! 🙁 What went wrong? Too much hydration? Not enough folding? Or too much proofing? I put it into the oven and then it sprang back, but not by much and the dough is certainly more dense than I would like. The taste? Ahhmazing, of course, but a little gummy…Any advice? I can send pics if that would help, too.
It sounds like maybe the dough was over proofed in this case, especially if you did not see significant rise in the oven. You might want to stick an ambient thermometer in that proofer box to make sure when you set it to 79ºF it’s actually that temperature in there (even better would be to take the temp of the dough with an instant thermometer).
Spreading like that could also be due to over hydration or not enough strength, or both, essentially. Make sure the dough is strong enough to hold its shape on the counter after you preshape and shape it — just like you’d see at the Manufactory!
A couple of important questions, this is clearly a very high hydration dough. The hardest thing about this for me besides not overproofing it is the preshape and shape!
Are there any videos of you preshaping this high hydration dough? I have found a number of useful videos on youtube but none of them seem to be dealing with 87% hydration.
For some reason I simply cannot get a taut enough boule when preshaping or shaping for that matter, during the preshape of my third attempted loaf I tore the skin multiple times and the dough simply would not hold its preformed shape as a boule, I am thinking over proofing again but how!
What are some signs of overproofing and how can it be counteracted! Do you have pictures of the shaping stages or videos would be even better! Happy New Year!
Here is a video of me preshaping, it’s a lower hydration than this recipe but it was still wet dough. I try to touch the dough as little as possible and mostly rely on my bench scraper and my other hand is well floured. There are a few other videos of me near that one showing mixing and preshaping.
Watch your dough during bulk fermentation. Take note of how it looks at the beginning of the process, after an hour, after two hours. Don’t let it go so far that it loses strength and begins to look overly “soupy” in the bowl. At the end of bulk it should be stronger, gassy and it should hold it’s shape a little more in the bowl. You’ll notice a smoother surface and defined edges.
Hope this helps — happy New Year!
I baked my first loaf the other day and wanted to ask a few questions before trying again. Can you elaborate on what you mean by “I keep the blade at a fairly shallow angle so the taut skin created during shaping will “peel” back as the loaf rises.” I felt that my bread didn’t expand any where as much as yours in the oven, I had a boule shape. Second comment is about the oven rise, is this type of bread meaning high hydration bread get an impressive oven rise? I found that my bread was cooked perfectly but what was missing was the rise and my airpockets were on the smaller side, although there were A LOT of them, how do I address this issue to get larger air pockets, what did I do wrong to impact my internal crumb structure?
When you’re holding your blade for scoring the dough, keep the large, flat part of the blade close to the dough when you are cutting in. Imagine swiping your credit card at a credit card machine: if you hold the card completely parallel with the dough and then angle the card UP so it’s now about 25-30º that will be just about right. Cutting in at a shallow angle like this helps this dough rise higher by reducing the amount the dough will spread open.
It sounds to me like you might have overproofed the dough. Usual signs for this are sluggish rise in the oven with lots and lots of small holes inside (also the taste might have been more sour than usual). Try reducing the final proof time a few hours next time (while trying to keep everything else consistent) to see if that helps!
When I last made it the it was very good but the crust was very thick and hard to cut. How could I prevent this from happening again.
I just put it in the oven. When I took it out of the shaping basket it just collapsed into a flat pancake and when I tried to score it the indentation just melted back into the dough. Why might this have happened? It wasn’t very strong but I even did an Extra stretch and fold. I think I over hydrated it. What do you think?
Yes, it could definitely be over hydration. Try reducing the water in this recipe by 10% and see how it goes next time, I’m sure it will help. It could also be that your dough was over proofed but I’d first reduce hydration and see if that improves!
Hi! I have CM T70 on hand and was wondering could I substitute that in Giustos ww spot in this formula? Same amount? I notice you love working with their flour so I’ve picked up a bunch and wanted your advice on when and where to use it in your formulas. Thanks so much! Happy proofing! 🙂
Hello! You could substitute it for sure, but know that T70 is much closer to white flour than whole wheat. Typical white flour is probably something like T60 or T65 so T70 is white flour with just a little bit more bran and germ (the “whole wheat parts”) left in. So yes, you could use it there or what might be even better is to replace a percentage, maybe 25%, of the white flour called for in this recipe for T70. That would be delicious! Have fun 🙂
Hey Maurizio, very much a n00b here but I followed everything closely and noticed that during fermentation I wasn’t getting the rise in the dough. I suspect I had some overhydration issues. Decided to continue forward and coming out of the oven after the steaming step, it looks a little flat. I do have large bread baskets but wondering where else I could’ve lost the rise in my process… Thanks and love the blog!
Clay — sorry about the late reply! I somehow missed the notification for this message. It could have been an over hydration issue. I’d suggest trying to reduce the water called for here by 10% and see if that helps the next attempt. Additionally, make sure you keep your dough warm (close to the Final Dough Temperature listed above) as it will ensure you’re having plenty of activity in your dough.
Thanks for the kind words and keep me posted on how it goes!
Thanks for the step by step instruction..good image presentation too..I tried this recipe using Surabhi Flour..it came out really well..your blog really helped me to make this recipe a success..thanks for sharing.
Glad I could help and I’m really happy to hear that! Happy baking, Jith!
Hi Maurizio! Thanks for the work in putting this together, it is very detailed and I especially like how you try to teach what to look for!
I made the dough mostly as described, but in the shape of a batard and I ended up with a rather flat loaf. I think the issues I experienced were the following: Bulk – At the end of 4 hours, my fermentation seemed incomplete, so I let it go, at about 70 degrees for another 3 hours. I think I got to where I should have, but worried that I over fermented. Then, during cold proofing, I did not get any increase in size after about 16 hours (temp in fridge is 38F). To compensate I allowed it come to room temperature and saw a good doubling in size, but when I put it on the peel, it didn’t keep it’s shape, and flattened out. So clearly I didn’t build enough strength durning bulk. The result was great flavor, the crumb seemed right on, and the crust was perfect, just flat.
I am going to drop the % of water in my next try, and also plan to build more strength. Any other suggestions?
Final question; Once you pull your bannetons out of cold proofing, do you allow the dough to come to room temp before baking, or do you put it in cold?
Thanks again!
You’re very welcome Kraig, glad to hear you’re enjoying the recipe! Sorry for the late reply.
It’s possible your dough was also overproofed by the time you got it into the fridge. With this recipe I do not usually see significant rise in my dough when I remove it from the fridge. It will look a little more puffy, but it usually relaxes out quite a bit.
Good move on reducing hydration, that should help strengthen the dough quite a bit. You could also try adding in one more set of stretch and folds if the dough still feels very weak at the end of your last set during bulk. Adjusting the time of your bulk is definitely a good thing, especially if the dough is around 70ºF. I keep my dough much more warm, 78ºF to 81ºF and that’s just about right for 4 hours or so. Lengthen bulk if you have to until you get to the appropriate signs for when the dough is strong enough. If you can increase the temperature of things then that will help as well.
I usually do not let the dough come up to room temperature for baking, I just bake them straight away.
Hope that helps, good luck on the next go and let me know how it goes!
I just made this this morning and wow! The crumb cracks like a cracker and it is so beautiful and smells wonderful. I’ve had trouble in the past with underproofing my dough and not testing my levian becase my kitchen sits at around 61-66, especially now that it’s so cold here in PA and I live in not a well ventilated/sealed apartment. So I kept my starter all week in the oven with the light on every time I fed it, and kept my levian, autolyse and bulk ferment in there too to help keep it at a steady, warm temperature. It rose so wonderfully. Thanks so much for the great recipe and all the pictures helped so much. I cooked it in the dutch oven and did a boule shape and turned out great.
Super glad to to hear this, thanks for the message Katie! I find one of the biggest challenges in baking at home, especially in the winter, are the cool temperatures. It’s very important to keep that levain and that dough warm for proper activity in the dough.
I too love this toasted, it turns into one giant, tasty cracker! Happy baking 🙂
Hi Maurizio,
Thanks so much for the detailed step by step instructions and photos, very much appreciated and nicely done. After baking the beginners sourdough recipe about 10 times now I decided to give this recipe a go. The increased hydration definitely made the dough tougher to work with – so sticky and hard to form. I used King Arthur flour which I’m sure could have also made a difference (King Arthur Bread Flour, and King Arthur Organic Wheat). I wish I could figure out how to post a picture – the crust and coloring came out very nice, the crumb looks good to me, no massive holes… I think it tasted good but my wife thought it was a bit more ‘wet’ than the other loaves. I took the bread out when the internal temp was 211.5 and I cut into it after letting it sit for maybe 4 hours. When poking at the crumb, is there a way to gauge ideal ‘sponge-iness’ of the bread? i.e. should the crumb bounce back when pushed? Should I have just let it sit overnight before cutting? Or is it simply going to be a bit damper and more moist because the hydration is almost 11-12% higher than the beginner sourdough recipe? In any event, I can’t wait until tomorrow morning to eat it!! Thanks!
Thanks for the kind words Andy! Yes, with increased hydration the interior is going to be more wet and creamy, which I think can be a good thing depending on how you like your bread. You can always work the percentage of water back just a bit from here until you reach your preferred interior texture. It sounds like you baked the loaves out completely so that’s as “dry” as they are going to get. Letting them sit for several hours is also another good thing, if you cut too soon they will be even more damp.
I find that this bread toasts up incredibly well — the added hydration and creamy interior crisps up so well I find myself toasting every slice when I bake this bread. Delicious.
As far as the shaping… Yes it takes some time and practice! It’s a sticky, wet dough but after a time your hands will become more and more confident with it and it won’t be a problem (mostly). You’ll be amazing at how lower hydration dough feels after you work at this recipe for a while, you’ll find yourself thinking “something has to be wrong” 🙂
I hope that helps and I’m really happy to hear this recipe is working well for ya, perhaps with a bit of tweaking you’ll be spot on for your taste! Happy baking Andy.
Hi Maurizio, I am so glad I stumbled upon your website. I have been gluten-free (yuck!) for over a year and when I found your site, I was determined to break the gf restriction with a homemade sourdough. I mean, if you’re going to go off script, you might as well go with a bang. I only wish I could attach the pictures of my first bake from the above recipe – a total success! I spent a few years baking from Chad’s book, but I really enjoyed trying some of your techniques and the results were better than I could have hoped for. Thanks for this site, it’s a revelation!
That’s so fantastic to hear, thank you so much for the kind words and for sharing that! Really glad to help you (in some small way) make sourdough at home. Such a healthy bread and I really think we can all do this at home. Happy baking, Paula!
Hi Maurizio,
I was wondering if you have any idea what would happen if you accidentally left the dough to autolyse for too long? Thank you!
I sometimes do an overnight autolyse (especially with recipes containing lots of whole wheat) and it really helps add extensibility to the dough. When doing this with a mostly white flour recipe I find the dough gets so extensible that it becomes hard to give it back enough strength before baking. You’re always looking for that balance between just enough strength in the dough to hold its shape and trap gases (elasticity) and just enough extensibility so the dough can relax and stretch out when baking to optimal height and shape. Hope that makes sense!
Hi Maurizio,
Thank you so much for the detailed response! I was panicking from my last two batches because the dough was nothing like my first attempt at this sourdough (which was an amazing success, I keep showing people photos of it like a proud mother). Initially during the most recent first batch I suspected it might have been the starter (which was a tad sluggish) or the autolyse (I was called away for work and left it for almost 2 hours longer than I should have!) which resulted in not a lot of rise, and a dough that is way too soft and doesn’t hold its shape. I barely managed to get it into the tins and just baked some flat loaves with poor crumb…
But after the second attempt I suspect it must have been the change of flour, since I refreshed the starter for an extra day and did the autolyse for 1h45 as recommended but was left with a soupy dough, which is somehow a further step back from the last attempt!
I recently bought some T55 (they were out of T65 in the shop, which I wanted to try) and I guess I basically learned the hard way how french flour performs. I tried again with 50/50 T55 (10% protein) and all purpose flour (12% protein) and extra whole wheat + rye (but not oats) as another commenter suggested, which improved the dough slightly but it’s still not 100%, and on the softer side.
Have you ever tried baking sourdough with T55? Do you have any experience to share?
I guess it’s all trial and error in the end, but I just wish it wasn’t so temperamental because failing at the end process of making sourdough is such a bummer!
Thank you!
I haven’t had a chance to work with T55 flour specifically so I can’t really comment on how it should perform, sorry about that! When I get a new flour to try I usually start with medium hydration, somewhere in the 70% range and work up as I feel the dough to see if it can take more or not. You can always add more water but you can’t take it out 🙂
If the dough was super soft and doesn’t hold its shape then it’s either too much water in the mix (this is a very highly hydrated recipe!) or there’s not enough strength built up during kneading and/or stretch and folds during bulk. Try reducing hydration by 10-15% and see if things feel better next try.
Hope that helps!
Hi there Mauricio,
I’ve made your beginner sourdough recipe a few times with great success and thought I’d give this one a try. I’ve read in many blogs that higher hydration makes for much better bread. Here is what I ran into: the dough was very wet and I had trouble shaping it because it was sticking to my wooden bread board and it was so loose that I couldn’t get surfice tension. The dough also stuck to the banneton when I was getting it out in the morning to bake. I’m gonna try less water next time I make it (and not skip the last three stretch and folds – I had a meeting). I’m also gonna get rice flour instead of AP flour for dusting the banneton. I will say that I’m happy with the crust and the crumb although I’d love a better rise/spring… which I’m hoping the adjustments I’m making will address. Do you have a suggestion on how much water to cut… I know it’s trial and error but I don’t know where to start.
Separate question: do you have any plan to get a croissant recipe on here 🙂
Thanks M!
Eli
Eli — thanks for the message! Yes, sounds like you should back off the water percentage until things are more manageable. Adding more water and performing less stretch and folds both contribute to the same problem: overly slack dough. I would start with 10% less water than you tried and slowly move up or down based on how that goes. Make sure to try and keep as many other things consistent from bake-to-bake as possible so you can see what works and what doesn’t.
I do have plans for a sourdough croissant recipe but haven’t gotten there yet. Croissants take quite a bit of practice!
Hope that helps, let me know how it goes!
Hi Maurizio,
I have been reading and trying many of your recipes and just wondering why you’ve used malt in some and not others. is it because of the enzymic activity of the different flours you’re using? I’m struggling to get enough flavour in my sourdough breads. I have tried an overnight autolyse as wells as putting it in the fridge to proof. the first method seems to make the structure too weak without much flavour improvement and the retard made it very sour. any advice ?
Hey, Karen! I like to use a small percentage of malt in my recipes as it increases enzymatic activity, as you mentioned, which helps fermentation and also adds a nice color to the crust. I use varying amounts depending on the flour I’m using — if it’s mostly fresh milled flour I’ll add quite a bit of malt (usually 1-2%) as that flour doesnt have any. Most of the flour I do buy does have malt already and so those recipes that use mostly aged flour won’t include as much malt.
It’s hard to answer your flavor question, that’s a very personal thing. What type of flavor are you after? Do you feel your bread is lacking that slight sour complexity from natural fermentation? If that’s the can you can try proofing for an extended period in the fridge but not quite as long as you might have — the longer it’s in there the more sour it will become. Back the time off until the sourness is where you want it.
If you’re looking more for the flavor of the grain, which is what I’m always trying to bring out, it starts with the flour you’ve chosen. Try using some various flour sources (local is best, if possible) and see if their grains impart even more flavor into your bread. Try mixing it up, too. I know some readers here love to use high percentages of whole wheat, rye, or even buckwheat to try and add to the overall flavor in their bread.
One thing to be aware of: as the sourness increases I find it can mask the true flavor of the wheat/grain used in the dough. Try to keep everything in good balance!
Hope that helps 🙂
hi Maurizio! sorry for the late reply! after a month of trying different things I have settled on a flour that unfortunately isn’t stone ground or organic, but seems to have great enzymic activity and taste. I live in the UK and have found that British wheat don’t have much gluten strength and tastes a bit bland…
you mentioned aged flour, I was wondering if you could enlighten me on what the difference is between aged and fresh flour. I always thought fresher is better ? thanks so much for all your help. 😃
I find the flavor and aroma of fresh milled flour to be really incredible. It’s different in a way that’s hard to explain until you smell and taste the results. I have an entire post here dedicated to me explaining baking with fresh milled flour, I think you’ll find all your questions about it answered there: Baking Sourdough with Fresh Milled Flour.
Hope that helps and happy baking!
Just been reading your freshly milled flour recipies, sound very interesting, would love to try milling my own flour although I might have a job getting hold of a mill…I think in your recipes you use Hard spring red wheat, have you ever used a softer kind of wheat and what are the differences between different varieties of wheat grain? You used White Sonora wheat I think, and that sounds really awesome. I’m just trying to figure out how to maximise the performance and flavour potential of using british wheat varieties as they seem to have less gluten and with a slight bitterness to the taste. Have you ever used a mash, you mentioned Peter Reinhart’s book in one of your posts so I’m just interested to know if you’ve tried using that technique and what you think of his methods.
Yes, I use fresh milled white whole wheat quite often which is a softer variety that traditionally has less “bitterness” than red whole wheat. If you can get ahold of some of this type of wheat I’d highly recommend it, I think it’s exactly what you’re looking for. I actually use this white wheat when I make a 100% whole grain sandwich loaf and it’s fantastic.
I haven’t used Reinhart’s methods for a mash but will have to look into it! I’m not too familiar with his methods although I do have one of this books (need to get back to it!) 🙂
It is his book on whole grain breads and he also has one on sprouted grains, but I’ve only got the whole grain one, I’ve got a pdf copy, if you want to read it I can email it. His methods seem a bit ‘out there’ so I’ve not had courage to try them yet. He says the mash activates enzymes in the flour to release more sugars… Anyway let me know if you try it!
I have his sprouted grain book and have read about half of it, still making my way through. I’ll let you know when I try one of his methods (although I did recently bake a sprouted buckwheat loaf that will be posted here soon — I didn’t follow his book per se but the process is probably similar)!
oh cool! really looking forward to seeing that! by the way have you got a good pannetone recipe??
Unfortunately I do not… I will probably be giving that a try next year, though 🙂
Hi Maurizio great site. Up to now have been baking the tartine method but thought I would give this a go. Unfortunately the crumb only had smallish holes and was very dense and doughy. It was kind of uncooked but sounded hollow underneath when I tapped and crust was also dark and crispy. I baked in oven for over 60 mins at the temps you stated. I followed all your instructions and kept within all the temp ranges.
Hope you can enlighten as to the possible problem, this is most probably the worst bake I have ever made.
Thank you! How did the dough feel? Was it overly wet and weak feeling? Most of the time too much water was used for the flour to handle, which requires sufficient dough strength and fermentation to ensure the loaf will rise fully in the oven the next day. I’d recommend you reduce hydration by 5-10% and see if it helps open up your crumb a little bit.
If you have any photos of your process I’d love to see them, it might help me diagnose what’s happening. Send me over an email through the “Contact” link at the top and we can look through your numbers to see what’s happening! Sorry to hear this didn’t work out so well for you but I’m sure we’ll get you on track.
Gave this a try last weekend and it was a very tasty bread. I used plain wheat flour and cut down on the water to approx 80% but the dough was still very hydrated and hard to handle, I was afraid I’d end up with flatbread rather than a loaf when I put it in the oven. Fortunately it rose beautifully, although not quite as much as yours.
Will definitely give it another try with whole wheat and slightly less water again, perhaps 76-77%.
Super glad to hear that, thanks for the feedback! It sounds like you might have been right on the edge with your flour, like you mentioned, try reducing and see if you get a bit more rise and openness inside. I love this bread! Thanks again and happy baking!
Hi Maurizio, I would like to bake this in one day without the night in the refrigerator. Do you think that this could this be accomplished simply by letting the shaped dough rest in the bannetons on the counter for some time? Any tips/timings for doing a single day bake. Thanks.
Yes you can certainly do this. The flavor profile will be different, but not in a bad way.
I would say instead of the overnight cold proof 3-4 hours on the counter at room temperature should work. Google “poke test” for some info on how to determine when your counter-proofed dough is ready to bake. Essentially you use your finger to poke the dough a few times and if the dough slowly springs back it’s read to bake.
Happy baking!